is this to save money?
thats the only reason i can think of.
No conspiracy - since all meetings are open to the public.
The hall I started in had windows - built around 1959 [as a Kingdom Hall originally also]
The new one - no windows - as is the almost universal design since the 80's in the US at least.
All the reasons listed apply; security, cost, heating/cooling, distractions also prob part of it
Jeff
i'm 21 years old and currently in a relationship with a baptised jw.
i have been studying with the jws for 2 years before we met.
well, i have to admit, i did not enjoy studying with them until about 10 months ago when i became interested of digging the "truth" although it means my sources was only the jw.
We see this sort of problem on here often. Clearly you have committed to the religion [halfheartedly it seems], and to the young man [more fully].
Trust me on this ; His loyalty is the issue. He thinks that loyalty to the Watchtower organization = loyalty to God. So he has a tough decision. What he needs to understand is that the two are not the same. Most witnesses never do - but thousands who have left [some of whom post here] do get the difference. But it is a rough trip out of the Fantasy Fog for many. Can he make it? Will he try? Who knows. But if you are not honest with him about the doubts you have - how can that be fair to him?
With you the issue is; honesty! Do you really want to yoke together two persons who have such differing world views, without giving air to these issues and allowing them to be considered? If you marry under that type of situation the issue will rare it's ugly head again - trust me. And then it may be much uglier to deal with - especially if kids are in the picture.
As far as what you can trust on this site; no one can vouch that all is true that is posted here. But I spent 45 years in the organization - I have seen much of what is reported here. And many long time x's that post here are decent and honest. Dozens or hundreds are ex-elders, pioneers, even circuit overseers and bethelites. They all loved the 'truth' and left due to conscience in most cases - not to be evil in any way. Most will even defend the organization when truly unfair statements are made about it. Some are disgruntled - most have just seen that the 'truth' is not the 'truth'. Look at the ones that seem fair and honest - private mail them if u need to. Marriage is forever - or supposed to be - but the pain of what can happen if you are not honest can last a lifetime too - but not pleasant lifetime.
We care.
Jeff
i know, i'd jump into this topic by saying, "heck yeah.
they're the ones saying they've been appointed by god based on what they were doing back around 1914-1919.
" but i'm trying to help someone out who has reached a roadblock with his wife.
MJ -
I think many of us felt like that while we wanted to believe it was the 'truth' - didn't we?
But how bout this?; If she becomes a witness [or stays one], and her child or husband is seriously hurt, needs blood, and she decides to let them die - ok if they have the absolute and undisputable truth - right? But if three years down the road the wts just jumps track and says that blood can be transfused now - then what? She will be out a loved one - the wts will never admit they had it wrong - and she will not be able to criticize them for the 'new light'. IF she does - boom - disfellowshipped.
There really is a lot to loose when we trust this organization to be right. They can kill you and then never apologize for having it wrong before they did!
Millions know it - if she refuses to hear it - what can you do?
Jeff
i had forgotten how much drama it is to deal with an elder who refuses to answer a direct question.
this isn't even bible related yet still he refused to answer my question.
first a little background.. last week my daughter missed detention.
I don't know if you have a legal case here - not a lawyer. But I feel for you in the nonsense they put you through here. WOW - what jerks.
I know when out daughter was going thru a bunch of personal problems and we tried to keep her from just leaving the kids with whomever, whenever, and for however long [much like your x did in this case for a week] - we were told by the authorities that we had no case - while her kids were legally in her custody she could choose to leave them with anyone she wanted. Don't know if the same applies in your state - I think that is a bunch of hooy though - who knows what could happen.
Good luck to you
Jeff
there was a very well respected elder in my cong that i will call mr. r. this elder was a very zealous and pious jw and the po.
mr. r was of cuban descent and had extremely conservative veiws.
mr. r being the upstanding jw and elder had a very attractive wife and two cute kids.
Dostprefer - the - troll said; Now I know I just missed something, for isn't it the general concensus that ALL elders are hypocritical, insincere, unloving, harsh, lying, lazy proud, arrogant, stubborn immoral and greedy
No, actually I have seen hundreds of posts here that praised good men and women of the congregation - including elders. I have made many myself. But many are as you state! And they are often discussed here. Just like you justify the organization by pointing out in your 'field service' the dispicable actions of the religious leaders in your area to discredit them, and to prove they are not holders of truth! Same thing.
I think hypocrite might apply to those who believe the watchtower dogma whilst secretly visiting this board. They know that telling the elders would bring immediate censure, or disfellowshipping.
Like you dos - --- do you meet the description you post here?
BTW - I think you are an _ _ _hole! [fill in the blanks - I went back and edited so as not to violate the rules here and call you what you are]
Jeff
Blondie posted this quote;
*** w97 8/15 p. 16 Living for Today or for an Eternal Future? ***
As events develop, though, our understanding of prophecy has become clearer. History shows that rarely, if ever, are divine prophecies fully understood before their fulfillment.
I must laugh at this, now that the WTS fog is gone! So then, what is the point of a group that has spent the past 130 years doing little else than trying to get these prophecies correctly interpretted before the events unfolded?
Never do I remember articles and books that said i.e.; 'let's review the prophecies of Daniel, let them interpret themselves, and if future events show that the prophecy has had modern day application we will point that out after the fact.'
Now that would be something - I think it would be too honest for them though! But you know what - Christendom, the so called wicked harlot does the honest thing all the time. I have met several nice Christians that tell me about their Bible studies in which they make little effort to interpret prophecy, they just read and wonder about it. That seems better than all these false hopes to me - let it be a mystery until it gets fulfilled - if it to be fulfilled at all.
Just my opinion
Jeff
(dear ones, because the spirit of my lord has directed me to remind his belongings of the season, i initially started to restate this message entirely; however, after reading it, i believe i can simply repost it as is, as it is as true, accurate and thorough now as it was before.
i beg your patience, concession, and simon's kind consideration.
to those who would find fault, i humbly ask you to re-read the subject line and note to whom this message is addressed, and ask that, if possible, perhaps you can find it in your heart to reserve your chagrin, if any.
Was thinking of going to church this week - won't need it now - sermon finished!
Jeff
well the big day is finaly upon me.i know i have'nt been posting these last few day's i been in a lot of pain,to sit and my pc, so i just wanted you all to know that it will be at least 3 weeks until i get home.i will be thinking of about all of you and my son has promised me that he will update every few days here
all my love.
orange fat cat.
OFC - Hope all goes well. Prayers and thoughts for a fast recovery.
Jeff
my husband and i started adoption proceedings over a year ago so he could adopt my 2 sons from my first marriage.
well today we finally had the court hearing and guess what.................the adoption went through!
my hubby is now the boy's father!
neverthere -
Congrats - I was not on here when it started - was unaware. Good for you!
Jeff
i really like this board.
i hate making this statement bec i dont want you to all start hating me.
but since i came on here i have been researching a lot.
Holly -
I don't know why that post came out so chopped up - every time I edit it it gets worse. Sorry.
Point is; Jesus is the way and the truth and the life. No organization is ever refered to. And all Christians would be sorted out by the angels - not some group who judges all as unworthy but those who join them. There is nothing to support those ideas in scripture at all.
I have sacrificed community and some family to leave. I deal with guilt and anger and frustration in my leaving. But I know I had to leave after a lifetime as a witness - not so much due to the major doctrines - but because this is not how Christ said he would determine who loved him. There is no evidence to support the WT claim to be God's exclusive people - none. All the dates are wrong - or just speculation. But they will not allow you to know that -and will expel you as 'evil' if u do. Jesus also said that all 'will know you are mine, if you have love among yourselves'. The friends I and my wife had for 45 years have turned back to us as if we were murderers, on the gossip of others - that cannot be the love that Christ referred to.
Enough said - sorry to ramble on.
Whatever decision you make - we do not judge you. Christ is your judge. Remember that.
May God bless - Jeff
